Thursday, May 31, 2012

Government and Church Interactions

How should the relationship between the Governments and Churches be summarized? Often the phrase "wall of separation" is used. Sometimes, the phrase is "entanglement or endorsement". Perhaps we should think about using the phrase: "Blind Lady Justice". A church should be treated as any other non-profit, as though it is not a religion.

Tuesday, May 29, 2012

Super majority of Georgia church leaves PCUSA after presbytery takeover UPDATED

The Layman Online Story: Super majority of Georgia church leaves PCUSA after presbytery takeover
  • Silver Creek Presbyterian Church
  • Silver Creek. GA
  • 136-year-old Georgia church
  • Session unanimously requested dismissal from the PCUSA to the EPC. February, 2012
  • Moving to EPC - temporary name: New Covenant Fellowship
  • Former Silver Creek pastor Jack Foley, who along with the church’s active elders renounced PCUSA jurisdiction on Thursday
  • 65 members (77%) left + pastor
  • 10-20? members stayed?
  • 2010 Statistics: 96 members / 57 worship / $137,025 Contributions
  • 2011 Statistics: 94 members / 56 worship
  • Cherokee Presbytery
  • Presbytery officials are calling a schism
  • Presbytery response team, seemed to pre-ordain a schism.
  • UPDATE: May 2012 Presbytery Handbook for meeting May 22, shows AC/RT for Silver Creek, Mars Hill, Dalton First
  • Feb 28, 2012, Presbytery approved to complete the dissolving of Euharlee Presbyterian Church as requested by the membership
  • Handbook Supplement-with RT letters:

Tuesday, May 22, 2012

Longview TX, First Presbyterian Church splits from PCUSA

Monday, May 21, 2012

FPC Greenville, SC votes to move to ECO

Greenville Online Story: First Presbyterian a step closer to changing denominations
  • First Presbyterian Church in Greenville, SC
    • ~1,500 Congregation voted: 97% to move to ECO
    • 3,647 members (14%)
    • 1,950 attendance (21%)
    • $4,791,259 contributions (19%)
  • Foothills Presbytery
    • Synod of South Atlantic
    • The next presbytery meeting is August 18 at Seneca Presbyterian Church, 9:00 AM.
    • Considered "Gracious Dismissal Process" at Feb 2012 meeting - Results?
    • 68 churches
    • 25,678 members
    • 9,302 attendance
    • $24,973,095 contributions

Friday, May 18, 2012

5 churches leave PCUSA - Presbytery of Mississippi - UPDATED 3x

Sun Herald Story: 2 churches change denominations
Layman Online Story: Dismissal votes shear a third of Mississippi Presbytery’s members
  • Presbytery of Mississippi dismissed 5 churches on May 17, 2012
  • On April 29, Pascagoula & Ocean Springs voted individually to disaffiliate from the PCUSA

Church, Membership, Worship,Contributions from 2010 PCUSA numbers.

  1. First Presbyterian Church of Pascagoula - 602/200/$600,000 - EPC
  2. First Presbyterian Church of Ocean Springs - 507/204/$428,000- EPC
  3. First Presbyterian Church of Port Gibson - 162/110/$136,000 - ?
    Going Inside: Port Gibson’s First Presbyterian: Hand Pointing To Heaven
  4. First Presbyterian Church of Vicksburg - 386/230/$669,000 - ?
  5. Yokena Presbyterian Church - 33/20/$36,000 - ?
    listed in the National Register of Historical Places.
TOTALS: 5(11%)/1,690(30%)/764(30%)/$1,869,000(42%), out of 43/5,566/2,563/$4,460,975

Thanks to the Presbytery for the quick response to my email inquiry.

Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Longview TX, First Presbyterian Church might split from national group

News Journal Story: Longview First Presbyterian Church might split from national group
  • First Presbyterian Church of Longview, TX
  • Congregation will vote Sunday, May 20, 2012 on request to dismiss - non-binding
  • Session voted, 21-3, to seek dismissal. April 3, 2012
  • Members: 742, Worship 280 NOTE: Unlike most PCUSA churches, there numbers have increased steadily over the last 10 years. 15% membership and 3% worship
  • Found 1874
  • (Ed:) Note how the article only tells the story from the pro-gay side. The first comment on the article, I would consider hate speech.

Tuesday, May 15, 2012

9 Churches leave PCUSA - UPDATED 4X

Sun Sentinel Story: Congregations leave local Presbyterian district
Sun Sentinel Story: Local Presbyterians vote on split today.
Layman Story: with more details
Layman Online Story: Tropical Florida presbytery agrees to dismiss nine churches

NOTE: Missing Church: Central PC, Miami (Kendall)(394/227) from old list on Layman

(Ed.) The paper did not list all 9, I will update from the Presbytery document even it was not very accurate with church names or cities, compared to PCUSA official documentation. Hopefully, I guessed what that meant.

This Presbytery keeps its minutes encrypted! Are they ashamed of their meetings?

Carmen Fowler, executive director of the national Presbyterian Lay Committee:

  • "About 200 churches have left since 2007"
  • "They see the handwriting on the wall, They can let [congregations] leave with the possibility of a reunion, or they burn their bridges."

Monday, May 14, 2012

Congregation's final service small in numbers but not love

Saint Louis Today Story: Congregation's final service small in numbers but not love
  • 140-year-old church, organized in 1872
  • Festus, MO, 11,602 at the 2010 census
  • Twin City Christian Church began holding services in the community room.
  • The younger and more contemporary congregation will take over the rest of the church
  • First Presbyterian will be assimilated into Grace Presbyterian, just over a mile away in Crystal City.
  • Crystal City and its neighbor Festus are often collectively known as the "Twin Cities"

Sunday, May 13, 2012

An acurate Analysis of why PCUSA is breaking up.

Pod People: Colorado Presbyterians and the Irish abuse scandals

As Nathaniel Campbell noted in his comment on the Colorado Springs article, the press frequently conflates the disputes within the mainline denominations into a single issue — homosexuality.

"there are deeper but acknowledged issues here over hermeneutics and the evangelical insistence on privileging (often exclusionarily) a literal reading of Scripture."

"In my estimation, at least, that is the major “ghost” behind a lot of mainstream/evangelical friction. While on the surface level it manifests as doctrinal disputes, I think it is at root a problem over how to read and understand Scripture."

Saturday, May 12, 2012

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) plans more job cuts

Courier-Journal StoryPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.) plans more job cuts
  • 14 current workers will see their jobs cut
  • 17 vacant positions being eliminated.
  • Eighteen new jobs will be created, for a net loss of 13.
  • $87 million originally budgeted for 2012
  • $82 million for 2013
  • $78 million for 2014?

Wednesday, May 9, 2012

The West Hollywood PC to leave PCUSA for more liberal United Church of Church

The West Hollywood Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles plans to formally join the ranks of the more liberal United Church of Christ on Saturday. As throngs of religious conservatives break from the PCUSA over the ordination of gay ministers, a small gay-led California parish is staging a schism of its own, saying the church has done too little to accept homosexuality.

Tuesday, May 8, 2012

Caldwell Presbyterian churches to consolidate

New Jersey Hills Story: Caldwell Presbyterian churches to consolidate

Maumee Valley Presbytery not following its own dismissal rules

The Layman Online Story: Good for goose but not for gander

Presbylaw temporary site.

Announcement Policy

If you have comments, corrections, or updates to this website please email me: PRESBYLAW webmaster or leave a comment.

If you wish to make a church announcement of a vote or lawsuit, I will need to verify. You either need to send it via a email that I can publicly verify belongs to the church, or point to a website with a news story, or official church website. Contacting the layman may be a better route.


FEED PCUSA List Feed Atom Feed of Blog Posts
EMAIL PRESBYLAW webmaster Comments, corrections, updates
NEWS PRESBYWEB: Viewpoint PCUSA Property Trust History Disputed By Jeffrey C. Francis
PDF Memorial Park on Seperation Bulletin Insert for May 6th
Web Kirk's Legal Docs (pdfs) Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK
PDF PCUSA Articles of Incorporation Churches can't be a member of the PCUSA according to its own articles of incorporation
PDF Legal Strategy #1PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave
PDF Presbyteries Process #2 PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave
Doc Secret Document #3 News about a third secret document
PDF Process Administrative Review Process from the Synod of the Northeast
PDF Presbytery Of New Covenant Process For Addressing Churches Seeking To Withdraw From PC(USA)
PDF Wabash Valley Presbytery Separatist Task Force
Doc PC(USA): Constitutional Musings: Note 12 Responding Pastorally to Troubled Churches
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 02 Dissent and Defiance
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 03 Administrative Commission
PDF PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 11 Church Property
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 17 Schism
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 19 Implementing the Trust Clause for the Unity of the Church
Web Presbyterian Outlook Statement about resources prepared by the Constitutional Services Department and the Office of Legal Services at the General Assembly level of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Web Stated Clerk, GAC chief urge churches not to defect from PC(USA) We are better together in Christ's Unity

PC(USA) News Service

Presbyterian Google News

IRD Presbyterian News

The Christian Post


Denomination NameParentLocationSizeYear
United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. - UPCUSA(N) PUSA & UPCNA New York City8,909/2,342,4411958-1983
Presbyterian Church in United States (Confederate) - PCUS(S) Presbyterian Church in United States Atlanta, Ga.4,250/814,9311861-1983
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) PC(U.S.A) UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Louisville, Kentucky11,596/3,122,213June 10, 1983
Evangelical Presbyterian Church EPC UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Livonia, MI67/19,000 (1982)1980/1981
Presbyterian Church of America PCA PCUS(S) Lawrenceville, GA260/41,232May 18, 1973
Orthodox Presbyterian Church Presbyterian U.S.A. Willow Grove, PA 300/20,417 1936
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church Associate Presbytery/Reformed Presbytery Greenville, SC 250/40,392 1782



News Crosswalk The Intersection of Faith and Life
News Church Report National business news magazine
NewsPC(USA) NewsPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.) News Service
NewsSave Hollywood PresLinks to news about PC(USA) Troubles
NewsThe Layman OnlineTHE News Source about PC(USA)
NewsLayman - propertyThe Layman - Property Issues Archive
Blog Reformed Pastor EPC Pastor - Church Planter
BlogFull Court PresbyPastor Lance's Blog to his Congregation about PUP etc.
BlogClassical PresbyterianBlogging for the Reformed Resistance in the PC(USA)
BlogAnderson SpeakCommentary on Faith, Christianity, and the PCUSA by Noel K. Anderson
BlogBayou Christian Bill Crawford, Pastor First Presbyterian Church of Thiboduax
Blogblog 137Pastor Dave Moody, Trinity United Presbyterian Church, Sparta, IL.
BlogTruth in Love NetworkA group of Presbyterian elders who are concerned with the direction of the PC(USA).
BlogMark D. RobertsProfessor & Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, CA
BlogInstitute on Religion and Democracy25 years of working to reform the social and political witness of American churches
Blog The Berkley Blog James D. Berkley, Director of Presbyterian Action
BlogTom's ThoughtsTom Gray, Co-Pastor, Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebStand to ReasonChristian Ambassadors for defense for classical Christianity
WebPresbyterian ForumWorking for reformation through overt political action
WebWiki:PresbyterianWikipedia's Presbyterian Overview
WebKirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OKChurch in Tulsa, OK - Fighting for its Property.
WebKirk's Legal Docs (pdfs)Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebKirk Docs (text)Kirk Of The Hills docs, Converted to text
PDFLegal Strategy #1PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave
PDFPresbyteries Process #2PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave
DocSecret Document #3News about a third secret document
PicPresby Chart 1Chart showing the history of breakups and mergers (standard)
WebPresby Chart 2Presbyterian Church History-Lesson 13-An Overview of Contemporary American Presbyterianism
WebPresby Chart 3 (text)History of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Web Presby Chart 4 Denomination Family Trees (Interactive)
WebPresby Chart 5 ARPC Denomination Family Tree
WebMaps of ReligionsList of Many Maps of 2000 Census Data on Religion
PicMap: CountyMap of Denominations by County
Pic Map: Presbyterian Map of Presbyterian's as percentage of Population
Web ARDA Association of Religion Data Archives
PPTReport on PUPNew Wineskin's Report on PUP
PDFReport on PUPNew Wineskin's Report on PUP
PDFBook of OrderOfficial PDF Copy of Book of Order for PC(USA)
PDFBook of ConfessionsOfficial PDF Copy of Book of Confessions for PC(USA)
WebAdvisory OpinionsPC(USA) Stated Clerk Advisory Opinions (not binding, nor authoritative)
WebPC(USA) Constitutional MusingsOffice of Constitutional Services - Unofficial Thoughts
WebPC(USA) Amicus Curiae BriefsStated Clerk & AC on Litigation - Friend of the Court Briefs
WebGAPJC PC(USA)PC(USA) General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission Decisions
WebPension Board PC(USA)PC(USA) Board of Pensions
WebFoundation PC(USA)Presbyterian Foundation, New Covenant Trust and New Covenant Mutual Funds
WebPC(USA) BOO AnnotatedPC(USA) Book of Order - Annotated
WebPresbyterian CoalitionWorking for a Revitalized Church
WebConfessing Church Movement1,314/434,697
WebNew WineskinsNew Wineskins Association of Churches(2001)

Usage: This information, including formatting/html,..., may be used by other sites, without limit. In Fact, I hope somebody would take over, with more time on their hands.

Blog Archive