Government and Church Interactions

How should the relationship between the Governments and Churches be summarized? Often the phrase "wall of separation" is used. Sometimes, the phrase is "entanglement or endorsement". Perhaps we should think about using the phrase: "Blind Lady Justice". A church should be treated as any other non-profit, as though it is not a religion.

Super majority of Georgia church leaves PCUSA after presbytery takeover UPDATED

The Layman Online Story: Super majority of Georgia church leaves PCUSA after presbytery takeover

• Silver Creek Presbyterian Church
• Silver Creek. GA
• 136-year-old Georgia church
• Session unanimously requested dismissal from the PCUSA to the EPC. February, 2012
• Moving to EPC - temporary name: New Covenant Fellowship
• Former Silver Creek pastor Jack Foley, who along with the church’s active elders renounced PCUSA jurisdiction on Thursday
• 65 members (77%) left + pastor
• 10-20? members stayed?
• 2010 Statistics: 96 members / 57 worship / $137,025 Contributions
• 2011 Statistics: 94 members / 56 worship
• Cherokee Presbytery
• Presbytery officials are calling a schism
• Presbytery response team, seemed to pre-ordain a schism.
• UPDATE: May 2012 Presbytery Handbook for meeting May 22, shows AC/RT for Silver Creek, Mars Hill, Dalton First
• Feb 28, 2012, Presbytery approved to complete the dissolving of Euharlee Presbyterian Church as requested by the membership
• Handbook Supplement-with RT letters:

Longview TX, First Presbyterian Church splits from PCUSA

• news Journal Story: First Presbyterian Church of Longview members vote to leave denomination
• News From Grace Presbytery
• Opinion by member of EPC Longview: Bartlett: Can city be blessed by church split?
• 282(76%)-84(23%)-6(1%) (EPC-PCUSA-building)
• Six voting to stay with the property regardless of denomination affiliation
• Session voted, 21-3, to seek dismissal. April 3, 2012
• Grace Presbytery
• Synod of the Sun
• Administrative commission!
• the departing group would have services Sunday in a church at 600 W. Garfield St., a building that once housed First Lutheran Church
• PCUSA (84+6)24% will continue to worship at original building. FPC Longview

FPC Greenville, SC votes to move to ECO

Greenville Online Story: First Presbyterian a step closer to changing denominations

• First Presbyterian Church in Greenville, SC
  • ~1,500 Congregation voted: 97% to move to ECO
  • 3,647 members (14%)
  • 1,950 attendance (21%)
  • $4,791,259 contributions (19%)
• Foothills Presbytery
• Synod of South Atlantic
• The next presbytery meeting is August 18 at Seneca Presbyterian Church, 9:00 AM.
• Considered "Gracious Dismissal Process" at Feb 2012 meeting - Results?
• 68 churches
• 25,678 members
• 9,302 attendance
• $24,973,095 contributions

5 churches leave PCUSA - Presbytery of Mississippi - UPDATED 3x

Sun Herald Story: 2 churches change denominations
Layman Online Story: Dismissal votes shear a third of Mississippi Presbytery’s members

• Presbytery of Mississippi dismissed 5 churches on May 17, 2012
• On April 29, Pascagoula & Ocean Springs voted individually to disaffiliate from the PCUSA

Church, Membership, Worship,Contributions from 2010 PCUSA numbers.

1. First Presbyterian Church of Pascagoula - 602/200/$600,000 - EPC
2. First Presbyterian Church of Ocean Springs - 507/204/$428,000- EPC
3. First Presbyterian Church of Port Gibson - 162/110/$136,000 - ?
   Going Inside: Port Gibson’s First Presbyterian: Hand Pointing To Heaven
4. First Presbyterian Church of Vicksburg - 386/230/$669,000 - ?
5. Yokena Presbyterian Church - 33/20/$36,000 - ?
   listed in the National Register of Historical Places.

TOTALS: 5(11%)/1,690(30%)/764(30%)/$1,869,000(42%), out of 43/5,566/2,563/$4,460,975

Thanks to the Presbytery for the quick response to my email inquiry.

Longview TX, First Presbyterian Church might split from national group

News Journal Story: Longview First Presbyterian Church might split from national group

• First Presbyterian Church of Longview, TX
• Congregation will vote Sunday, May 20, 2012 on request to dismiss - non-binding
• Session voted, 21-3, to seek dismissal. April 3, 2012
• Members: 742, Worship 280 NOTE: Unlike most PCUSA churches, there numbers have increased steadily over the last 10 years. 15% membership and 3% worship
• Found 1874
• (Ed:) Note how the article only tells the story from the pro-gay side. The first comment on the article, I would consider hate speech.

9 Churches leave PCUSA - UPDATED 4X

Sun Sentinel Story: Congregations leave local Presbyterian district
Sun Sentinel Story: Local Presbyterians vote on split today.
Layman Story: with more details
Layman Online Story: Tropical Florida presbytery agrees to dismiss nine churches

• Presbytery of Tropical Florida.(57 local churches)
• more than 3,800 of the 13,425 people will leave (28%)

Members/Worship/Contributions+The amounts they have to pay to get out of PCUSA

1. Faith Presbyterian, Pembroke Pines: (Members/Worship:51/30/$233,173) - EPC - $17,615 + $7,393
2. Memorial Presbyterian Church (broken link), West Palm Beach: (462/198/$534,519) - ECO - $28,170 + $5,000
3. All Villages, Port St Lucie West: (2008: 184/94/$153,553)- ECO - $12,300 + $1,000
4. Grace Community (was FPC?), Boca Raton: (1,050/422/$875,000)- ECO - $82,000 + $27,00
5. Kirk of the Keys, Marathon: (72/138/$169,000)- ECO - $6,762 + $1,000
6. Palm City PC, Palm City: (544/280/$984,252)- ECO - $46,856 + $3,000
7. Indian River, Ft Pierce: (2004: 663/427/$766,375)- ECO - $59,250 + $12,000 + $75,000 (lot)
8. FPC, North Palm Beach: (1731/741/$1,917,153)- ECO - $105,359 + $20,000
9. FPC, Miami Springs: (73/69/$151,560)- ECO - $0

NOTE: Missing Church: Central PC, Miami (Kendall)(394/227) from old list on Layman

(Ed.) The paper did not list all 9, I will update from the Presbytery document even it was not very accurate with church names or cities, compared to PCUSA official documentation. Hopefully, I guessed what that meant.

This Presbytery keeps its minutes encrypted! Are they ashamed of their meetings?

Carmen Fowler, executive director of the national Presbyterian Lay Committee:

• "About 200 churches have left since 2007"
• "They see the handwriting on the wall, They can let [congregations] leave with the possibility of a reunion, or they burn their bridges."

Congregation's final service small in numbers but not love

Saint Louis Today Story: Congregation's final service small in numbers but not love

• 140-year-old church, organized in 1872
• Festus, MO, 11,602 at the 2010 census
• Twin City Christian Church began holding services in the community room.
• The younger and more contemporary congregation will take over the rest of the church
• First Presbyterian will be assimilated into Grace Presbyterian, just over a mile away in Crystal City.
• Crystal City and its neighbor Festus are often collectively known as the "Twin Cities"

An acurate Analysis of why PCUSA is breaking up.

Pod People: Colorado Presbyterians and the Irish abuse scandals

As Nathaniel Campbell noted in his comment on the Colorado Springs article, the press frequently conflates the disputes within the mainline denominations into a single issue — homosexuality.

"there are deeper but acknowledged issues here over hermeneutics and the evangelical insistence on privileging (often exclusionarily) a literal reading of Scripture."

"In my estimation, at least, that is the major “ghost” behind a lot of mainstream/evangelical friction. While on the surface level it manifests as doctrinal disputes, I think it is at root a problem over how to read and understand Scripture."

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) plans more job cuts

Courier-Journal StoryPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.) plans more job cuts

• 14 current workers will see their jobs cut
• 17 vacant positions being eliminated.
• Eighteen new jobs will be created, for a net loss of 13.
• $87 million originally budgeted for 2012
• $82 million for 2013
• $78 million for 2014?

The West Hollywood PC to leave PCUSA for more liberal United Church of Church

The West Hollywood Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles plans to formally join the ranks of the more liberal United Church of Christ on Saturday.

• The West Hollywood Presbyterian Church
• Los Angeles
• Presbytery of the Pacific
• voted on Tuesday to let the 99-year-old parish keep property
• "gracious-dismissal" policy

As throngs of religious conservatives break from the PCUSA over the ordination of gay ministers, a small gay-led California parish is staging a schism of its own, saying the church has done too little to accept homosexuality.

Caldwell Presbyterian churches to consolidate

New Jersey Hills Story: Caldwell Presbyterian churches to consolidate

• First Presbyterian Church
  • 1050 Members / 300 Worship
• Presbyterian Church of West Caldwell
  • Renamed: First Presbyterian Church at Caldwell – West Caldwell Campus
  • 55 Members / 25 Worship
  • 1.3 miles apart
• to control costs.

Maumee Valley Presbytery not following its own dismissal rules

The Layman Online Story: Good for goose but not for gander

• First Presbyterian Church
• Tecumseh, Mich
• 440-members
• Maumee Valley Presbytery
• Remedial complaint filed by Tecumseh FPC
• the Synod of the Covenant Permanent Judicial Commission.

Layman's list of churches leaving

Layman's list of churches leaving