Monday, May 19, 2008

Kirk's Sur-Reply Filed & Posted & UPDATED

On Friday, May 16, Kirk applied for more time to file their Sur-Reply to briefs filed by EOP and PCUSA, it is unopposed by the other side. From other suits I have followed, it is wise to not oppose your opponents request for more time, as it may weight heavy against you, if you need more time in the future. (What goes around, comes around).

I can't blame Kirk, it was EOP and PCUSA that was long winded. Do they get paid by the word? ;)

UPDATE: According to the Official Court Site: Kirk has filed their Sur-Reply!

UPDATE 2x: Sur-Reply POSTED here added to Kirk's Legal page - Thanks

I am impressed with Kirk's openness, as opposed to EOP's and PCUSA's secrecy. They used secrecy, from the day of the fillings of affidavits on every EOP church's property title.

QUESTION: Has any other Presbytery filled of affidavits? Has anybody checked?

UPDATED 3x: Table of Contents added to my Kirk's Legal Page as well as below.

Interesting Quote: Ecclesiastical jurisdiction requires consent of the governed.

[Ed: My original analysis stands: Kirk Rules, EOP Drools!]

  • Summary: The very simple key to resolving the entire case is disaffiliation.
  1. Administrative Commission Had No Jurisdiction
    1. Disaffiliation by Kirk Terminated PCUSA Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction.
    2. Kirk Had the [ed: US] Constitutional Right to Disaffiliate from PCUSA
    3. Book of Order Does Not Prohibit Corporations or Congregations From Unilaterally Disaffiliating from PCUSA.
    4. Kirk's Corporation's Amendment of its Corporate Articles and Bylaws was Lawful
  2. There is No Trust Agreement Between Kirk Corporation and EOP/PCUSA.
  • Conclusion: Grant Kirk's Summary Judgment; Deny EOP/PCUSA (disputed facts)
Posted by at

2 comments:

Anonymous said...

At 2:44 pm 5/23 the following was posted on the Tulsa District Court website regarding the Kirk lawsuit:
"Order granting plantiff's (Kirk's) unopposed application for enlargement of time to file sur-reply brief."

Does anyone know what this means?

A Kirk member

May 23, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Jim said...

* May 16, Kirk ask for more time.
* May 19, The Judge grants verbally
* May 19, Kirk turns in the Sur-Reply
* May 23, Judge signs formal papers for the delay.

* a Sur-Reply is a reply to a reply.
You can see the Sur-Reply on Kirks site
(I have links to in on my page) and You can see my summary and "analysis"
(I am not a lawyer):
Kirk Rules, EOP Drools!

May 23, 2008 at 11:16 PM

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FEED PCUSA List Feed Atom Feed of Blog Posts
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NEWS PRESBYWEB: Viewpoint PCUSA Property Trust History Disputed By Jeffrey C. Francis
PDF Memorial Park on Seperation Bulletin Insert for May 6th
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PDF PCUSA Articles of Incorporation Churches can't be a member of the PCUSA according to its own articles of incorporation
PDF Legal Strategy #1PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave
PDF Presbyteries Process #2 PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave
Doc Secret Document #3 News about a third secret document
PDF Process Administrative Review Process from the Synod of the Northeast
PDF Presbytery Of New Covenant Process For Addressing Churches Seeking To Withdraw From PC(USA)
PDF Wabash Valley Presbytery Separatist Task Force
Doc PC(USA): Constitutional Musings: Note 12 Responding Pastorally to Troubled Churches
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 02 Dissent and Defiance
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 03 Administrative Commission
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Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 17 Schism
Doc PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 19 Implementing the Trust Clause for the Unity of the Church
Web Presbyterian Outlook Statement about resources prepared by the Constitutional Services Department and the Office of Legal Services at the General Assembly level of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Web Stated Clerk, GAC chief urge churches not to defect from PC(USA) We are better together in Christ's Unity
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United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. - UPCUSA(N) PUSA & UPCNA New York City8,909/2,342,4411958-1983
Presbyterian Church in United States (Confederate) - PCUS(S) Presbyterian Church in United States Atlanta, Ga.4,250/814,9311861-1983
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) PC(U.S.A) UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Louisville, Kentucky11,596/3,122,213June 10, 1983
Evangelical Presbyterian Church EPC UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Livonia, MI67/19,000 (1982)1980/1981
Presbyterian Church of America PCA PCUS(S) Lawrenceville, GA260/41,232May 18, 1973
Orthodox Presbyterian Church Presbyterian U.S.A. Willow Grove, PA 300/20,417 1936
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LINKS

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News Crosswalk The Intersection of Faith and Life
News Church Report National business news magazine
NewsPC(USA) NewsPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.) News Service
NewsSave Hollywood PresLinks to news about PC(USA) Troubles
NewsThe Layman OnlineTHE News Source about PC(USA)
NewsLayman - propertyThe Layman - Property Issues Archive
Blog Reformed Pastor EPC Pastor - Church Planter
BlogFull Court PresbyPastor Lance's Blog to his Congregation about PUP etc.
BlogClassical PresbyterianBlogging for the Reformed Resistance in the PC(USA)
BlogAnderson SpeakCommentary on Faith, Christianity, and the PCUSA by Noel K. Anderson
BlogBayou Christian Bill Crawford, Pastor First Presbyterian Church of Thiboduax
Blogblog 137Pastor Dave Moody, Trinity United Presbyterian Church, Sparta, IL.
BlogTruth in Love NetworkA group of Presbyterian elders who are concerned with the direction of the PC(USA).
BlogMark D. RobertsProfessor & Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, CA
BlogInstitute on Religion and Democracy25 years of working to reform the social and political witness of American churches
Blog The Berkley Blog James D. Berkley, Director of Presbyterian Action
BlogTom's ThoughtsTom Gray, Co-Pastor, Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebStand to ReasonChristian Ambassadors for defense for classical Christianity
WebPresbyterian ForumWorking for reformation through overt political action
WebWiki:PresbyterianWikipedia's Presbyterian Overview
WebKirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OKChurch in Tulsa, OK - Fighting for its Property.
WebKirk's Legal Docs (pdfs)Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebKirk Docs (text)Kirk Of The Hills docs, Converted to text
PDFLegal Strategy #1PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave
PDFPresbyteries Process #2PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave
DocSecret Document #3News about a third secret document
PicPresby Chart 1Chart showing the history of breakups and mergers (standard)
WebPresby Chart 2Presbyterian Church History-Lesson 13-An Overview of Contemporary American Presbyterianism
WebPresby Chart 3 (text)History of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
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PPTReport on PUPNew Wineskin's Report on PUP
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PDFBook of OrderOfficial PDF Copy of Book of Order for PC(USA)
PDFBook of ConfessionsOfficial PDF Copy of Book of Confessions for PC(USA)
WebAdvisory OpinionsPC(USA) Stated Clerk Advisory Opinions (not binding, nor authoritative)
WebPC(USA) Constitutional MusingsOffice of Constitutional Services - Unofficial Thoughts
WebPC(USA) Amicus Curiae BriefsStated Clerk & AC on Litigation - Friend of the Court Briefs
WebGAPJC PC(USA)PC(USA) General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission Decisions
WebPension Board PC(USA)PC(USA) Board of Pensions
WebFoundation PC(USA)Presbyterian Foundation, New Covenant Trust and New Covenant Mutual Funds
WebPC(USA) BOO AnnotatedPC(USA) Book of Order - Annotated
WebPresbyterian CoalitionWorking for a Revitalized Church
WebConfessing Church Movement1,314/434,697
WebNew WineskinsNew Wineskins Association of Churches(2001)
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