- Commissioners: 50% Elders and 50% Pastors - elected by each Presbytery, the only ones with votes in the big session?
- YAD - Youth Advisory Delegates: elected by each Presbytery
- TSAD - Theological Student Advisory Delegates
- Mission Advisory Delegates.
- Ecumenical Delegates - From other denominations
- Corresponding Members - Staff from all levels
- Observers - Press, bloggers, others.
Organize the web stories, info on the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) troubles: Property Ownership, Church Withdrawals, Ordination Standards, Hierarchical vs. Connectional.
Tuesday, July 1, 2008
Question on Delegates?
I have a question on delegates to the General Assembly! There were several kinds of delegates. On voice votes, what is to prevent AD's from shouting out?
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Presbylaw temporary site.
Tracking the PC USA troubles.
Other Presbylaw Pages
Other Websites Covering Property
| Layman Online: | |
| Legal Resource Databank | |
| Chart: Churches leaving the PCUSA | |
| Archives on property issues within the PCUSA | |
| PCUSA: Legal Strategy #1 | |
| PCUSA: Presbyteries Process #2 | |
| PCUSA: Secret Document #3 |
Voting on PCUSA Admendments: Sources
Presbylaw temporary site.
Announcement Policy
If you have comments, corrections, or updates to this website please email me: PRESBYLAW webmaster or leave a comment.
If you wish to make a church announcement of a vote or lawsuit, I will need to verify. You either need to send it via a email that I can publicly verify belongs to the church, or point to a website with a news story, or official church website. Contacting the layman may be a better route.
LINKS
| Type | Name | Description |
|---|---|---|
| FEED | PCUSA List Feed | Atom Feed of Blog Posts |
| PRESBYLAW webmaster | Comments, corrections, updates | |
| NEWS | PRESBYWEB: Viewpoint | PCUSA Property Trust History Disputed By Jeffrey C. Francis |
| Memorial Park on Seperation | Bulletin Insert for May 6th | |
| Web | Kirk's Legal Docs (pdfs) | Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK |
| PCUSA Articles of Incorporation | Churches can't be a member of the PCUSA according to its own articles of incorporation | |
| Legal Strategy #1 | PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave | |
| Presbyteries Process #2 | PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave | |
| Doc | Secret Document #3 | News about a third secret document |
| Process | Administrative Review Process from the Synod of the Northeast | |
| Presbytery Of New Covenant | Process For Addressing Churches Seeking To Withdraw From PC(USA) | |
| Wabash Valley Presbytery | Separatist Task Force | |
| Doc | PC(USA): Constitutional Musings: Note 12 | Responding Pastorally to Troubled Churches |
| Doc | PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 02 | Dissent and Defiance |
| Doc | PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 03 | Administrative Commission |
| PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 11 | Church Property | |
| Doc | PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 17 | Schism |
| Doc | PC(USA): Advisory Opinions: Note 19 | Implementing the Trust Clause for the Unity of the Church |
| Web | Presbyterian Outlook | Statement about resources prepared by the Constitutional Services Department and the Office of Legal Services at the General Assembly level of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) |
| Web | Stated Clerk, GAC chief urge churches not to defect from PC(USA) | We are better together in Christ's Unity |
| Type | Name | Description |
PC(USA) News Service
Presbyterian Google News
IRD Presbyterian News
The Christian Post
Denominations
| Denomination Name | Parent | Location | Size | Year |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. - UPCUSA(N) | PUSA & UPCNA | New York City | 8,909/2,342,441 | 1958-1983 |
| Presbyterian Church in United States (Confederate) - PCUS(S) | Presbyterian Church in United States | Atlanta, Ga. | 4,250/814,931 | 1861-1983 |
| Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) PC(U.S.A) | UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) | Louisville, Kentucky | 11,596/3,122,213 | June 10, 1983 |
| Evangelical Presbyterian Church EPC | UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) | Livonia, MI | 67/19,000 (1982) | 1980/1981 |
| Presbyterian Church of America PCA | PCUS(S) | Lawrenceville, GA | 260/41,232 | May 18, 1973 |
| Orthodox Presbyterian Church | Presbyterian U.S.A. | Willow Grove, PA | 300/20,417 | 1936 |
| Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church | Associate Presbytery/Reformed Presbytery | Greenville, SC | 250/40,392 | 1782 |
Links
LINKS
| Type | Name | Description |
|---|---|---|
| News | Crosswalk | The Intersection of Faith and Life |
| News | Church Report | National business news magazine |
| News | PC(USA) News | Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) News Service |
| News | Save Hollywood Pres | Links to news about PC(USA) Troubles |
| News | The Layman Online | THE News Source about PC(USA) |
| News | Layman - property | The Layman - Property Issues Archive |
| Blog | Reformed Pastor | EPC Pastor - Church Planter |
| Blog | Full Court Presby | Pastor Lance's Blog to his Congregation about PUP etc. |
| Blog | Classical Presbyterian | Blogging for the Reformed Resistance in the PC(USA) |
| Blog | Anderson Speak | Commentary on Faith, Christianity, and the PCUSA by Noel K. Anderson |
| Blog | Bayou Christian | Bill Crawford, Pastor First Presbyterian Church of Thiboduax |
| Blog | blog 137 | Pastor Dave Moody, Trinity United Presbyterian Church, Sparta, IL. |
| Blog | Truth in Love Network | A group of Presbyterian elders who are concerned with the direction of the PC(USA). |
| Blog | Mark D. Roberts | Professor & Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, CA |
| Blog | Institute on Religion and Democracy | 25 years of working to reform the social and political witness of American churches |
| Blog | The Berkley Blog | James D. Berkley, Director of Presbyterian Action |
| Blog | Tom's Thoughts | Tom Gray, Co-Pastor, Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa, OK |
| Web | Stand to Reason | Christian Ambassadors for defense for classical Christianity |
| Web | Presbyterian Forum | Working for reformation through overt political action |
| Web | Wiki:Presbyterian | Wikipedia's Presbyterian Overview |
| Web | Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK | Church in Tulsa, OK - Fighting for its Property. |
| Web | Kirk's Legal Docs (pdfs) | Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK |
| Web | Kirk Docs (text) | Kirk Of The Hills docs, Converted to text |
| Legal Strategy #1 | PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave | |
| Presbyteries Process #2 | PC(USA)'s Process for churches wanting to leave | |
| Doc | Secret Document #3 | News about a third secret document |
| Pic | Presby Chart 1 | Chart showing the history of breakups and mergers (standard) |
| Web | Presby Chart 2 | Presbyterian Church History-Lesson 13-An Overview of Contemporary American Presbyterianism |
| Web | Presby Chart 3 (text) | History of the Presbyterian Church (USA) |
| Web | Presby Chart 4 | Denomination Family Trees (Interactive) |
| Web | Presby Chart 5 | ARPC Denomination Family Tree |
| Web | Maps of Religions | List of Many Maps of 2000 Census Data on Religion |
| Pic | Map: County | Map of Denominations by County |
| Pic | Map: Presbyterian | Map of Presbyterian's as percentage of Population |
| Web | ARDA | Association of Religion Data Archives |
| PPT | Report on PUP | New Wineskin's Report on PUP |
| Report on PUP | New Wineskin's Report on PUP | |
| Book of Order | Official PDF Copy of Book of Order for PC(USA) | |
| Book of Confessions | Official PDF Copy of Book of Confessions for PC(USA) | |
| Web | Advisory Opinions | PC(USA) Stated Clerk Advisory Opinions (not binding, nor authoritative) |
| Web | PC(USA) Constitutional Musings | Office of Constitutional Services - Unofficial Thoughts |
| Web | PC(USA) Amicus Curiae Briefs | Stated Clerk & AC on Litigation - Friend of the Court Briefs |
| Web | GAPJC PC(USA) | PC(USA) General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission Decisions |
| Web | Pension Board PC(USA) | PC(USA) Board of Pensions |
| Web | Foundation PC(USA) | Presbyterian Foundation, New Covenant Trust and New Covenant Mutual Funds |
| Web | PC(USA) BOO Annotated | PC(USA) Book of Order - Annotated |
| Web | Presbyterian Coalition | Working for a Revitalized Church |
| Web | Confessing Church Movement | 1,314/434,697 |
| Web | New Wineskins | New Wineskins Association of Churches(2001) |
| Type | Name | Description |
Usage: This information, including formatting/html,..., may be used by other sites, without limit. In Fact, I hope somebody would take over, with more time on their hands.
Blog Archive
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2008
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July
(18)
- Presbytery files countersuit to recover Peters Cre...
- Wellpinit Presbyterian Closes Its Door
- Londonderry Trial Begins (Updated 3x)
- Kirk of the Hills - No News is ....
- How to Lie with Statistics
- Not One Penny!
- Beaver-Butler Presbytery (PA) releases Chippewa UPC
- I threw out the bath water but not the baby.
- Is a church active or not?
- Statistics for Inactive and Left/Leaving
- Statistics for each Presbytery UPDATED 3x
- Statistics for each Presbytery UPDATED
- Most Significant Action taken by the 2008 GA?
- South Louisiana drops suit against Woodland
- Statistics for 2007 - Churches that went to Zero
- Statistics for 2007 - Kirk is still in PCUSA???
- Presbytery of Philadelphia dismisses Oreland PC
- Question on Delegates?
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July
(18)
4 comments:
Hi Jim-
In answer to your question about advisory delegates voting, on a voice vote there is no official check of who is voting. However, they are intermixed with the rest of the commissioners so they are under obligation of their own conscience as well as the enforcement of those around them.
I would also add that on several votes I thought were not close on voice vote the Moderator or Vice-moderator called for a recorded vote using the electronic voting pad. On one of those it came back closer than I would have though. One side shouting louder? Vote changes or delegates voting? Hard to judge from the cheap seats in the back? I don't know. Most controversial votes were taken electronically, with the significant exception of the approval of the Belhar for the confession process.
My REAL question was are ALL of the voting delegates elected by a Presbytery? None are staff, or Seminaries?
Steve - Yes, you are correct we took electronic votes on anything that would seem controversial and more than once even on voice votes, division of the house was called by others and or we just did it anyway. Some, in fact, thought we overused the electronic system, but I would rather take the electronic to avoid as much confusion as possible.
Jim - The commissioners SHOULD all be elected by some process of each Presbytery. Most Presbyteries now use some kind of rotation model (Seniority and or Congregational rotation) so there is hopefully less politicking in the presbytery. While Presbytery staff are eligible to be commissioners, and have been in the past, I don't recall hearing of any this year.
So regardless of what one thinks about decisions and/or whether they reflect the true nature of the church, they are people in the pews and pulpits of the church.
Hope that is helpful.
Bruce
Yes, that is helpful. It will be interesting to see after the Presbyteries vote, how much difference there is between the GA vote and the Presbytery votes. I am still disappointed that the property clause did not get a vote.
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