Thursday, November 29, 2007

Kirk of the Hills - PRAYER REQUEST! Updated!

Prayer Request: Tom Gray is having surgery Monday (see his blog for more info). Please pray for him and his family during this difficult time. UPDATE: Surgery went well! Over in 1/2 the original time. Praise The Lord!

There have been lots of paper exchange in the Kirk vs. EOP/PCUSA lawsuit. I have a list of the court actions on another page or the official court list in legaleze. The latest action is Kirk trying to force EOP and PCUSA to supply documents, and information. The next court date is Dec 20, 2007 at 9 am. The agenda is to decide if EOP and PCUSA have to answer Kirk. Originally scheduled for Sept 20, the wheels of justice do turn slowly.

Unfortunately, Oklahoma Courts are only half way into digital. Unlike Federal Courts and some state courts, you can not download the documents even for a fee. You must go in person and pay $1 a page for a hardcopy and kill some more trees. I hope they go to electronic filling and retreval and no fee. A closed court is a court subject to corruption.

The Tulsa world had an article today, it says nothing new.

Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Greater Alanta Presbytery Overreacts! UPDATED!

Another Presbytery goes off the deep end in response to a church's actions. According to a Layman Article, the Greater Atlanta Presbytery COM wants to form an AC will FULL powers, because the Session of Timberridge Presbyterian Church has sued to have its property declared to be its own. The COM report is in the Handbook(pg 21) for the next Presbytery meeting called for Nov 27, 2007 (today as of this writing). They also want to know any links or attendance to New Wineskins! This reminds me of the Hollywood Communist Blacklists, but from the left instead of the right.

UPDATE: The church voted to leave IMMEDIATELY on Nov 25, 2007 (205-14). The pastor has renounced the jurisdiction of the PCUSA.

The church was founded in 1829 and has about 350 members according to their own website. They appear to be a very conservative church. I have added them to my list of churches.

As a side note, the Presbytery website state that minutes will no longer be posted. Those of us who are paranoid, might think they have something to hide. They do have the Presbytery Sermon Transcript: "Postmodern. Post Denominational. But not Post Presbyterian"

ALSO their front page has a blurb on peacemaking (anti-war), maybe they should apply this to their dealings with this church.

In their previous meeting they heard a report on Hanbit and Smyrna Administrative Commissions. They appear to be want AC's are really to be used for, not political hatchet jobs.

  • Smyrna AC requested by Session and Interim Pastor.
  • Hanbit AC - church only has Parrish Associate?

Sunday, November 18, 2007

Weekend News

Blood money or a Good Compromise?

Quincy FPC has been released by its Presbytery (newspaper). The new church will pay $196,000 and drop claims to the current name. The Presbytery will release the church to EPC with its property. Both sides will drop claims for claims, damages, or demands. This is 10% of current value. THE question is this Blood money or the proper thing to do?

Friday, November 16, 2007

New Church in Paola, KS

Due to the outrageous, behavior of the Presbytery of the Heartland, The former members of FPC of Paola have started a new church called Lighthouse Presbyterian Church!

Newspaper: New Presbyterian church organized

Response from around the web:

From the PC(USA) viewpoint:

Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Money Rumors from Eastern Oklahoma Presbytery

I usually don't publish rumors, but these came from an elder attending EOP meetings. I will continue to search for confirmation.
  • EOP was out of money.
  • GAC "donated" $30,000 to EOP to keep up the Kirk fight.
  • EOP ask each minister to donate $50 to keep up the Kirk fight.
According to Sept 2007 Packet, EOP has spent YTD $67,388, thru June 2007 on legal fees.

UPDATE: The packet also shows that EOP expects a tithe (10%) anytime a church is sold.

Sunday, November 11, 2007

Presbytery of the Heartland is Heartless - UPDATED! 2X

This story from KC Community News website, proves once again the the Presbytery of the Heartland is Heartless:

"Leaders of Paola church asked to resign from session."

UPDATE: I found the AC report (PDF) on the Presbytery website, it states:

"Further, the Administrative Commission is addressing the issue of whether the current Session of the First Presbyterian Church of Paola may remain the Session pursuant to the applicable provisions of the Book of Order. The Administrative Commission has requested that the current Session resign. Absent such resignation, the Administrative Commission has scheduled a hearing with the Session of First Presbyterian Church of Paola for November 12th, 2007."

UPDATE 2: Blogs respond to the news and more BAD news! Classical Presbyterian: Two weeks to get out! Here is what Kirk Johnston, the pastor of the Paola congregation told the New Wineskins prayer team: "Prayer is needed. As for Paola we are not going to resist the presbytery any further. We cannot bring ourselves to open battle over property in our situation. We do not wish to let them goad us into choosing property over witness to Jesus. Please pray that conversely we do not trade anger or resentment for it either. We are simply trying our best to be faithful, to do that which leads to His praise and we have to suffer, move etc... we will do it out of love for Him. But we need to be covered in prayer to stay under His purpose. Your request and your prayers are a deep blessing. God is good - ALL the time."

Thursday, November 8, 2007

News from around the web.

I attended a Eastern Orthodox Church as part of my son's "comparative religion" class. The father said they consider the Roman Catholic church is the first Protestant denomination to break away!

Tuesday, November 6, 2007

Nov 4 2007 News

  • Tom is back on his blog! Welcome back!
  • Peter's Creek votes to leave w/o Presbytery permission. (see list)
  • Changed the format on the list again!
  • Working to normalize the entries, the older ones are very out of date with the format.
  • Our move to the real site may happen soon. Support emailed me to set up a time for the move!
  • Found some entries in Hollywood that should have been in Torrance! (titles, instead of dates, do help!)
  • When we move I want to make the list a database. Then the list can be sorted by the viewer by just a click, Items to click on: Number, Name, Presby, Synod, To, Location, Status, founded.
  • New site would automaticly generate statistics on the churches: Membership totals, status totals, Presbytery totals, dollar totals.
  • New site would also auto generate the html for the table for easy format changes.
  • How about a Hide/Show story option - for a condensed table!
COMMENTS on new site plans PLEASE!

Friday, November 2, 2007

What can replace PCUSA Mission Yearbook?

2008 PCUSA Mission Yearbook is available now

'Where two or more are gathered' is theme of 116th book. My men's prayer group "reads" this every week. Every quarter we rotate who read's it. We often view it as a "joke". The stories tell very little of real use or they are very political instead of Christian. "every" country is included whether PCUSA has any real presence or not. What are some of the EPC groups using as a replacement?

Presbylaw temporary site.

Announcement Policy

If you have comments, corrections, or updates to this website please email me: PRESBYLAW webmaster or leave a comment.

If you wish to make a church announcement of a vote or lawsuit, I will need to verify. You either need to send it via a email that I can publicly verify belongs to the church, or point to a website with a news story, or official church website. Contacting the layman may be a better route.


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Denomination NameParentLocationSizeYear
United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. - UPCUSA(N) PUSA & UPCNA New York City8,909/2,342,4411958-1983
Presbyterian Church in United States (Confederate) - PCUS(S) Presbyterian Church in United States Atlanta, Ga.4,250/814,9311861-1983
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) PC(U.S.A) UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Louisville, Kentucky11,596/3,122,213June 10, 1983
Evangelical Presbyterian Church EPC UPCUSA(N) & PCUS(S) Livonia, MI67/19,000 (1982)1980/1981
Presbyterian Church of America PCA PCUS(S) Lawrenceville, GA260/41,232May 18, 1973
Orthodox Presbyterian Church Presbyterian U.S.A. Willow Grove, PA 300/20,417 1936
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church Associate Presbytery/Reformed Presbytery Greenville, SC 250/40,392 1782



News Crosswalk The Intersection of Faith and Life
News Church Report National business news magazine
NewsPC(USA) NewsPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.) News Service
NewsSave Hollywood PresLinks to news about PC(USA) Troubles
NewsThe Layman OnlineTHE News Source about PC(USA)
NewsLayman - propertyThe Layman - Property Issues Archive
Blog Reformed Pastor EPC Pastor - Church Planter
BlogFull Court PresbyPastor Lance's Blog to his Congregation about PUP etc.
BlogClassical PresbyterianBlogging for the Reformed Resistance in the PC(USA)
BlogAnderson SpeakCommentary on Faith, Christianity, and the PCUSA by Noel K. Anderson
BlogBayou Christian Bill Crawford, Pastor First Presbyterian Church of Thiboduax
Blogblog 137Pastor Dave Moody, Trinity United Presbyterian Church, Sparta, IL.
BlogTruth in Love NetworkA group of Presbyterian elders who are concerned with the direction of the PC(USA).
BlogMark D. RobertsProfessor & Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, CA
BlogInstitute on Religion and Democracy25 years of working to reform the social and political witness of American churches
Blog The Berkley Blog James D. Berkley, Director of Presbyterian Action
BlogTom's ThoughtsTom Gray, Co-Pastor, Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebStand to ReasonChristian Ambassadors for defense for classical Christianity
WebPresbyterian ForumWorking for reformation through overt political action
WebWiki:PresbyterianWikipedia's Presbyterian Overview
WebKirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OKChurch in Tulsa, OK - Fighting for its Property.
WebKirk's Legal Docs (pdfs)Kirk Of The Hills, Tulsa, OK
WebKirk Docs (text)Kirk Of The Hills docs, Converted to text
PDFLegal Strategy #1PC(USA)'s Legal Strategy for churches wanting to leave
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WebPresby Chart 2Presbyterian Church History-Lesson 13-An Overview of Contemporary American Presbyterianism
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WebAdvisory OpinionsPC(USA) Stated Clerk Advisory Opinions (not binding, nor authoritative)
WebPC(USA) Constitutional MusingsOffice of Constitutional Services - Unofficial Thoughts
WebPC(USA) Amicus Curiae BriefsStated Clerk & AC on Litigation - Friend of the Court Briefs
WebGAPJC PC(USA)PC(USA) General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission Decisions
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WebFoundation PC(USA)Presbyterian Foundation, New Covenant Trust and New Covenant Mutual Funds
WebPC(USA) BOO AnnotatedPC(USA) Book of Order - Annotated
WebPresbyterian CoalitionWorking for a Revitalized Church
WebConfessing Church Movement1,314/434,697
WebNew WineskinsNew Wineskins Association of Churches(2001)

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